Panthers 20, Lions 0: Game # 10 ( 2020 )

[D6]

Thoughts in ****

Quick observations: Matt Patricia’s seat heating back up after Lions shut out for first time in 11 years



Quick observations: Matt Patricia’s seat heating back up after Lions shut out for first time in 11 years

Updated 5:17 PM; Today 4:11 PM

Week 11: Detroit Lions at Carolina Panthers

By Kyle Meinke | [e-mail]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Five straight games. The Carolina Panthers had lost five straight games. That’s one of the worst teams in the league. They don’t have the best running back on the planet either, then scratched their quarterback 90 minutes before facing the Detroit Lions on Sunday at Bank of America Stadium.


Then that team -- which hadn’t won since Oct. 11, doesn’t have its quarterback or best player, has a bottom-10 defense that was just scorched for 45 points last week -- that team just shut out the Lions 20-0.


This is the first time Detroit (4-6) has been shut out since losing 26-0 against Green Bay on Oct. 18, 2009. Daunte Culpepper started that game at quarterback too, which means this is the first time Matthew Stafford has been shut out in his career. And the overall production -- just 185 yards -- was Detroit’s worst since Stafford suffered a shoulder injury in the 2010 season opener.


Simply put: This is the most embarrassing loss yet in another really disappointing season for Matt Patricia, and it now seems all-but-inevitable changes loom in the next six weeks for this franchise. Because ownership mandated a playoff chase, and instead they’ve faded from legitimate contention before even sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner.


Sure, Stafford also was playing with a partially torn ligament in the thumb of his throwing hand. That probably didn’t help. Neither did Kenny Golladay, Danny Amendola and D’Andre Swift watching the game in street clothes back in Detroit. But that’s no excuse. Carolina didn’t have Christian McCaffrey. It didn’t have Teddy Bridgewater either.


So a last-place team riding a five-game losing streak was forced to start an XFL quarterback making his NFL debut named P.J. Walker. And the game wasn’t even competitive.


The Lions’ offense was conservative, ineffective, inefficient, terrible. They had 19 yards in the entire first quarter. Matthew Stafford passed for 54 yards in the first half, his worst half of football since 2013. Anyone who lived through the Jim Bob Cooter era knows that’s really saying something. Again, maybe the finger factored into that. That’s not what they said all week -- they said Stafford was totally fine, as did Stafford himself -- but hey, he does have a partially torn ligament in his thumb.


Then again, the Lions never even tested Carolina down the field. Stafford didn’t complete a pass longer than 21 yards in the first half, didn’t so much as complete multiple passes to any player at all. And he was no better in the second half, finishing 18 of 33 passing for 178 yards and no touchdowns. Hs rating of 70.0 made this his worst game since 2018.


It’s not like he had any support in the backfield, either. Adrian Peterson got another start with D’Andre Swift out, and his struggles continued. None of his seven carries went for longer than 4 yards, and he finished with 18 overall.


Detroit’s longest drive of the day, against a defense that was ripped for 45 points last week: 42 yards.


The Panthers, meanwhile, were able to scratch together 20 points behind a backup quarterback. That’s not much, but it was 20 more than Detroit could manage. Walker led a 95-yard touchdown drive for the only points of the first half, then hooked up with Curtis Samuel for a 17-yard touchdown pass over Desmond Trufant in the third quarter. Throw in two field goals, and it was more than enough to hammer a Lions team that is almost certainly headed for a regime change.

**** Replacing Matt Patricia and many ( or most ) of his Assistant Coaches isn't a potential solution by itself. Bob Quinn hired Patricia and put this roster together. Barring an improbable turnaround, both Quinn and Patricia should be shown the door. If the Lions lose on Thanksgiving Day to the Texans, which is a very realistic possibility, I think it's in the Lions best interest to fire Quinn and Patricia the next day. This way, the process to find a new GM can begin well before the end of the regular season.

The Lions inability to run the ball in the 1st half effectively with the Panthers showing both of their Safeties in a 2 deep look contributed immensely to the Lions not even getting into FG range in the first half. My criticism of the Offensive play calling in the first half is the Lions not doing remotely enough to take advantage of the Panthers often bringing up a Safety late before the ball was snapped or after the ball was snapped. The Lions pass protection was good for the most part in the first half. It wasn't until the Panthers build a 14-0 lead in the 3rd QTR that the Lions were overmatched in pass protection.

The Lions mental mistakes in this game proved very costly. Matthew Stafford was off target on a couple of 2nd half throws. But in terms of performance level in this game, he was better than most of his teammates.****

Enough. Let’s just get onto some observations.


-- Listen, Darrell Bevell did some nice things last year. Matthew Stafford played better, more efficient football than ever, and was on the periphery of the MVP race when he broke that bone in his back. But this year, it’s not working. It hasn’t been working for a while, and this game was just plain ugly. The Lions fell behind 17-0 late in the third quarter, then opened up with another first-down run (for 1 yard) and then another first-down run (for 4 yards). Why? You trail 17-0 late in the third. You also don’t have your best running back. Adrian Peterson has sucked for about two months straight now. So why are you putting this game in his hands?

**** Jonathan Williams didn't get a single carry. I don't recall even seeing him in the game. This is something that should be questioned, being that Adrian Peterson and Kerryon Johnson were both unable to spark the running game. The run blocking was problematic. More though was needed from the RBs. Adrian Peterson's dropped pass on a 2nd and 10 play on the Lions first possession contributed to the Lions having to punt because of a worse down and distance situation. Though for the most part the Lions pass blocking was good in the 1st Half, Frank Ragnow got called for a holding penalty on the 3rd Down play ( incomplete pass to T.J. Hockenson ). Longer down and distance situations and the protection issues was the norm in the 2nd half once Carolina led 14-0. ****


Of course, the Lions did get something going on that drive when Stafford hooked up with T.J. Hockenson for a 35-yard pass, his first pass of longer than 21 yards in the game. Suddenly, the Lions were finally threatening to score. And then the Lions dialed up another first-down run ... this time a keeper for Matthew Stafford around the right side. Why the Lions are running at all there, I don’t know. Why they’re dialing up a run for their injured quarterback, I’ll never know.

**** That was a baffling play call. A read option with Matthew Stafford dealing with a thumb injury made no sense ****

-- The game plan was as conservative as anything I’ve seen since the end days of the Jim Bob Cooter era. That might have been to protect Stafford’s injured thumb (then again, why are they running him on RPOs?), or perhaps because they were without Kenny Golladay and Danny Amendola. At any rate, Stafford suffered for it, just like he did in those end days of the Cooter Ball offense. He completed just five passes in the first half for 54 yards, the fourth-worst first half of his career, and his worst since 2013, the final season of the Jim Schwartz era. And watching Detroit struggle to score even one point against one of the worst teams in the league, while its defense struggled to defend XFL alum P.J. Walker -- who threw two inexplicable interceptions in the end zone and still did enough to clobber Detroit -- you have to really wonder if this is Patricia’s last stand as well.

**** A 3rd Down and 6 drop by T.J. Hockenson in Panthers territory that prevented a 1st Down was very costly. The same with Hockenson missing a block on Panthers S Juston Burris on a 3rd and 2 run by Kerryon Johnson in Panthers territory on the Lions next possession. The result was a loss of a yard and the Lions had to punt again. Hockenson was pick # 8 in 2019. Panthers DE Brian Burns was pick # 16. It was crystal clear which player had a better game today . Burns and Burris were arguably the two best players in the entire game.****


-- There are all sorts of ugly numbers out of this one, but one that jumps out: The Panthers entered this game on track to have the worst third-down defense not only in the league, but in league history. And yet the Lions converted just one -- count ‘em, one -- third down in the first half, and finished 3-of-14 for the game. Just really inexcusable stuff. And when inexcusable stuff is happening 42 games in, you really have to wonder whether Matt Patricia will ever figure it out (or even be given the opportunity to figure it out.)


-- The Lions seemed to dodge a bullet when Carolina missed a 42-yard field goal late in the fourth quarter. Of course, the Lions being the Lions and all, they screwed that up too. Justin Coleman ran into the kicker, Carolina got another shot from 37 yards and canned that one for a 20-0 lead with 4:57 left.

**** The Lions Special Teams had their worst half of football this season in the 2nd half of this game. Including another missed FG by Matt Prater. It was also the first time Jack Fox had two below average punts consecutively ( he rarely had even one in the first 9 1/ 2 games ). The Lions also jumped off side on the final Panthers Punt when the game was all but officially over. The Lions Defense then did the same on the next play, when the Panthers went for a 1st Down on 4th and inches. The lack of focus doesn't reflect well on Matt Patricia, many of his Assistant Coaches, the players committing the penalties, and Bob Quinn.****


-- The Lions looked like they had finally driven into position for a score in the fourth quarter -- a field goal in a 17-point game, but a score nonetheless -- but Matt Prater missed the 51-yard attempt. When the most accurate long-distance kicker in history can’t put it through the uprights, you know it’s not your day.

**** The Lions got outplayed on all 3 units. ****


-- Jeff Okudah continues to play, because he has to. The Lions have no choice but to invest in developing him. But let’s be very clear: Amani Oruwariye has been Detroit’s best cornerback this season, and it hurts the team to take him off the field at all, let alone for Okudah. Yes, it was the third overall pick who was beat on the 52-yard pass that got P.J. Walker going in the first quarter and led to the only score of the first half. Then Oruwariye re-entered the game on the following series, right after Frank Ragnow muffed a snap, and picked off Walker in the end zone to keep it a one-score game. With the offense struggling to get anything going, that was a monster play.

**** Matt Patricia and Cory Undlin decided to put Desmond Trumont on Robbie Anderson more often than not instead of D.J. Moore. I hoped the coaches wouldn't make that mistake. Moore is a much more complete WR. In the 3rd QTR, Trufant was out of position in zone coverage on the Curtis Samuel TD reception. No excuse for that. That doesn't justify the so called strategy of matching up rookie Jeff Okudah with C.J. Moore. ****


-- Making a bad day worse, Okudah left the game with an injury late in the fourth quarter and did not return.

**** The injuries to CBs Jeff Okudah and Mike Ford likely will lead to 1 or 2 CBs being added to at least the Game Day roster for the Thanksgiving Day Game vs. the Texans.****


-- With D’Andre Swift out due to a brain injury, the Lions turned back to Adrian Peterson at running back. Not that you should have expected anything else. Find you somebody who looks at you the way the Lions look at Adrian Peterson, because they love that guy unconditionally. He started the season fine, but has been in decline basically every week since. He hasn’t had so much as a 10-yard run since the bye, and he didn’t have one against Carolina either. He didn’t even come close. He ran seven times for 18 yards in the first half, dropped the only pass that came his way and didn’t touch the football again.

**** The drop by Peterson came on the Lions first possession. He touched the ball again. ****


-- Marvin Hall started for Kenny Golladay and Danny Amendola at receiver, while rookie Quintez Cephus came off the bench as the third wideout.

**** WR will certainly be a position unit the Lions will need to make significant additions in the off- eason. The run blocking from the Lions collective WRs today was problematic as well. Marvin Hall didn't make an impact but he seemed to make less mistakes than the other 3 WRs at the top of the WR pecking order today.****


-- The Lions appeared to bench Halapoulivaati Vaitai, their top free-agent signing, to open the second half. Vaitai didn’t play last week because of a foot issue that has dogged him all season, but Detroit never announced an injury for him. Oday Absoushi replaced Vaitai at right guard.

**** For what it's worth, Big V played better than Oday Absoushi today. I rather the Lions go back to Joe Dahl on Thanksgiving Day, unless Logan Sternberg is ready to get an opportunity. The entire O-Line that played today ( I'm not including Matt Nelson, who on occasion was used as an extra O-Line ) didn't play well when all was said and done.****


-- Don Muhlbach played in his 254th career game, moving him into a tie for 45th on the NFL’s all-time list with some guy named Charles Woodson. Perhaps you’ve heard of him. The only active players to appear in more games than Detroit’s long snapper: Tom Brady (296), Drew Brees (284), Jason Witten (264), Larry Fitzgerald (260) and Andy Lee (258).

**** It's very likely that Don Muhlbach like so many other Lions players will never play on a winning Lions team in a playoff game.****


-- The Lions have a couple other iron-man streaks going too. Duron Harmon appeared in his 121st straight game, which is the longest streak among all safeties in the game. Jess James played in his 82nd straight game, which is second-longest among tight ends.

**** Duron Harmon's tackling became a problem again today. At least two missed tackles by # 26. ****
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This new thread is a continuation of the following thread:

Lions at Panthers preview: Game # 10 ( 2020 )

detroit-lions-forum.proboards.com/thread/819/lions-panthers-preview-game-2020?page=1&scrollTo=3961

[D6]

Inside the locker room: P.J. Walker goes from XFL starter to beating the Lions in 8 months

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John Penisini was one of very few Lions players that I thought played well today. He's likely never going to be much of a pass rusher. But he looked like an asset vs. the run and his effort jumped out on multiple occasions.

The QB hit by Romeo Okwara didn't come before the 52 yard completion to D.J. Moore or anytime prior to that play. It also didn't come on the remainder of that TD drive.

Romeo Okwara is a good player. But this game helped illustrate that he's not an elite pass rusher. Brian Burns looked like an elite pass rusher today. Also, great job by Burns with his 3rd Down pass deflection in on an intended pass to Kerryon Johnson. who had blocking setup in front of him. The Panthers often seemed a step ahead of the Lions physically and mentally.

Amani Oruwariye and Will Harris ( in his more limited # of snaps ) were the DBs I thought played well today.

Jamie Collins had a strong 1st half.

Everson Griffen was probably the Lions best all around edge player in this game.

[D6]

Blame Darrell Bevell and Matthew Stafford, if you must, for this Detroit Lions loss

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I"m not sure what flexibility Matthew Stafford had in checking into plays that would have had a significantly better chance of producing better results. The lack of execution, including 3 overt dropped passes, missed run blocks, and horrible pass protection in most of the 2nd half made the job for Matthew Stafford extremely difficult.

Other than two throws in which Stafford's accuracy clearly should have been better ( 3rd Down pass to Marvin Jones in the flat on the first 3rd QTR set of downs ) and a 3rd Down screen to Kerryon Johnson in the 4th QTR ), I don't have any issues ( no recall ) with Stafford's accuracy in this game.

[D6]

Detroit Lions grades in loss to Panthers: Most F's we've handed out this year

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On what became the Lions final play on Offense in the game, on 4th and 13, Jamal Agnew didn't help Matthew Stafford. It looked like Agnew should have come back for the ball in the middle of the field. He still would have been able to get enough yards for a 1st Down. Instead, LB Shaq Thompson was able to deflect the pass.

There was a 2nd and 13 play in the 2nd half in which both Romeo Okwara and Everson Gtiffen weren't in the game. An 11 yard reception to D.J. Moore resulted. Moore caught a pass for a 1st Down on the next play. The coaches are putting scheme over talent on Defense.

Jahlani Tavai looked overmatched in every role he was used in until around 5 minutes remaining in the 3rd QTR. He played noticeably better after that point. But he is light years from playing like a mid 2nd Round pick.

This was the first Lions game this season that the winning team lost the takeaway vs. turnover battle ( 2 to 1 )

[frenchylions]

There could have been another shutout this week in PIT - JAX but the Jaguars had the discourtesy to place a kick for 3 points ... pfff ungentlemanly conduct !


"Jonathan Williams didn't get a single carry"
He didn't even enter the field !
Jamal Agnew got a couple of touches and was in for 50% of offensive snaps.

"The run blocking was problematic."
As it already was last week, but Swift's performance made it look better that it was.

"A read option with Matthew Stafford dealing with a thumb injury made no sense"
A read option, even with Stafford 100% healthy, makes no sense.

"The same with Hockenson missing a block on Panthers S Juston Burris on a 3rd and 2 run by Kerryon Johnson in Panthers territory on the Lions next possession."
Seeing that play develop, I thought Johnson would easily gobble the 2 yards for a 1st down and more ... huh, no

"another missed FG by Matt Prater"
When Matt Prater entered the field, I thought to myself "If he misses this one, we're up for a perfect shutout" ... he he I must be some kind of psychic

"That doesn't justify the so called strategy of matching up rookie Jeff Okudah with C.J. Moore."
On that play, cover 2 press, Okudah had to press then play underneath the receiver and Harmon had to play over, Harmon was late and Okudah was a bit too far back as CJ Moore released too easily.
Please, let's stop asking Okudah to cover like a 10-year old veteran. Let's give him some credit and some time to develop.
Oruwaryie and Okudah could well be Lions next year starter CBs imo.

"The drop by Peterson came on the Lions first possession."
The Lions RB squad looks like a total bust if not for D'Andre Swift.
Adrian Peterson, Kerryon Johnson (2nd pick 2018), Ty Johnson (6th pick 2019), Jason Huntley (5th pick 2020)

"The entire O-Line that played today didn't play well when all was said and done."
Taylor Decker wasn't particularly impressive, he should be the one motivating his teammates but his demeanor was on the opposite.
Not only was he "burns-sted" a couple of times, but also in the running game, he didn't play till the whistle blew, not even making the effort to push the pile or follow the runner "in case of".

"John Penisini was one of very few Lions players that I thought played well today."
I really like the 2 "1" on the front, #71 Nick Sheldon and #91 John Penisini, they are relentless players. Unfortunately, they have the same run-stuffer 1-techinque profile.

"Everson Griffen was probably the Lions best all around edge player in this game."
When watching him play, I thought this was a good signing, he is a bit predictable as a pass rusher but he doesn't quit.

"Jahlani Tavai looked overmatched in every role"
He played 54% of the defensive snaps (only 13% last week vs Washington). I don't quite understand why so many snaps ?

[D6]

3 things we learned: Amani Oruwariye is the Lions’ best cornerback

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Jeff Okudah will likely be out of the Texans game because of the shoulder injury he suffered in the 4th QTR at Carolina. If Amari Oruwariye performs at a high level in that game, he should remain a full time starting in the rest of the games. Then when Jeff Okudah comes back ( if he's back this season ), he should platoon with Desmond Trufant. The latter might not even be back with the Lions in 2021 because of his contract.

This probably will be Adrian Peterson's final NFL season. The benefits Peterson provides D'Andre Swift in terms of what it takes to play in the NFL at a high level is the main value Peterson is still bringing to the table.

Big V's first half performance felt like it was just enough to hold the fort at RG.

[D6]

Frenchy, thanks for your thoughts on the game.

Much like in Detroit, a house cleaning in Jacksonville seems highly likely. The Jaguars future looks brighter than the Lions future because of their multitude of draft picks in the next couple of years and loads of salary cap space.

The lack of any carries for Jonathan Williams yesterday is yet another reason why Matt Patricia is failing as Lions HC.

D'Andre Swift helped his stock more by not being able to play yesterday. Kerryon Johnson probably lost some of his abilities because of the knee injuries. I still believe it was a major mistake to expose Jason Huntley to waivers. His potential as a receiver and as a returner was too high to risk losing.

Jeff Okudah needs a normal off-season and summer. The missed practice time, which could grow because of his shoulder injury, looks like yet another setback.

This was by far Taylor Decker's worst game of the season.

The additional value John Penisini brings to the table is his contract for the next three seasons is close to bargain basement.

Injuries likely contributed to Jahlini Tavai getting so much playing time at Carolina on Defense. Austin Bryant was inactive. Reggie Ragland got hurt in the game, which limited his playing time after that. Christian Jones and Jarrad Davis are limited because of injury. One concern in particular with Tavai is his cumulative injuries ( including the shoulder injury he suffered in Denver last December ) have already taken a permanent toll on him physically.

[D6]

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Because of the Lions overall struggles in getting the running game going at Carolina, Jonah Jackson's run blocking performance didn't get my attention.

On the other hand, Jackson struggled mightily as a pass blocker in the 2nd half. He was far from alone.

As a result of Tyrell Crosby having by far his worst all around game of the season ( at Carolina ), Amani Oruwariye is now who I consider the most improved Lions player this season ( through 10 games ).

[D6]

Breaking down the Lions' PFF grades from Week 11

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The ankle injury that Reggie Ragland suffered during the game, that substantially limited his snaps from that point on, made the Lions task in an attempted comeback noticeably more difficult than it already was.

This article is a good illustration of why the PFF Grades can sometimes be misleading. There doesn't seem to be enough weight on impactful plays in a given game. Also, with a player like Jeff Penisini, it highly likely that he's not going to be an asset as a pass rusher. Yet, his overall grade is going to be much lower if he's in for many passing snaps.

[frenchylions]

I'm quite confident with younger players as Oruwariye, Jackson, Penisini, Okudah and of course, Swift.  There is talent and passion out there.
Jonah Jackson will add a few pounds of muscles in the off-season and will be a reliable OL next season.
Idem for Penisini, he will be a solid 2-down DL.

[D6]

Like you mentioned, the Lions have some young players that can be part of a potential future Lions solution. Many more are needed. Including at WR, on the Defensive Line, LB, and Safety.

[D6]

To replace Matt Patricia, Detroit Lions could follow this new NFL trend

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If the Lions go the College route for the team's next Head Coach, I hope the coach has NFL Coaching Experience. Matt Rhule was the Giants Offensive Line Coach one season under Tom Coughlin. I think the risk of hiring a College HC without NFL Coaching Experience is too high.

Darryl Rogers, who had no NFL Coaching experience prior to being hired as an NFL Head Coach, is exhibit A of why NFL Coaching experience is very important for an NFL Head Coach.

[D6]

Snap counts: Halapoulivaati Vaitai benched for second half, continuing rough first season in Detroit

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The Lions Defense is spending too much time on the field. On a short week, this is a huge concern for today's game against the Texans.

[frenchylions]

As you suggest along the lines of the Stafford's thread, the Lions'offence has to sustain long drives, that's one for the key to keep DeShaun Watson at bay. 

[D6]

The first 10 plays of the opening 3rd QTR drive ( all running plays, 62 yards total, to the Texans 17 yard line ) was the ideal formula against DeShaun Watson and the overall Texans Offense. The incomplete pass attempted trick play from Jamal Agnew to Matthew Stafford was the beginning of the end of the Lions in this game.


Texans 41, Lions 25: Game # 11 ( 2020 )

detroit-lions-forum.proboards.com/thread/825/texans-41-lions-game-2020